Hyper.nl Unreal Services

pino · Joined: 25 Jul 2004 Posts: 11 Location: italy

hi hyper,

i had not enough time to talk about linux in the game. i prefer to write down a couple of things (hope useful things) here before i get some sleep (tomorrow i have to go to the hospital to do some job, surgery :P)

=== 1) linux vs windows

i was a windows user... before :)

now i use linux and free software for every need i have, talking about general computing (write, print, mail... fun&chat&play games! all that stuff) and particular needs too (consider i am not informatic, and also i have all the free soft i can need)

linux needs that the machine admin know well what he is going to do. but after this first step everything is much better than win

much more reliable, much more secure, much more software, much more fun too

=== 2) which distribution(distro) to choose

this is strictly personal...
-i love slackware because it is essential, no futile things. it is GPLicensed
-i didn't find debian useful (for *me*), but most of my friend at our local linux user group us this distro. it is GPLicensed
-i like very much gentoo, because it is simple and essential and very ordinated as slack, but has very good package manager too (emerge) that helps a lot in installing/removing software and keeping your system update
(and this last is very very important to keep a system secure!). it is GPLed
-most of people at their first look in linux prefer mandrake or fedora (formerly known as red hat) because of their being much more graphical in administrating, and very similar to 'windows style'. they are GPLed.
suse is good too, but you can't install software for server use (stuff like apache) without buying a license :p it is GPLed for personal use :PpPPPpPP
this three are very powerful too in system administration (it's linux!) but have graphical interface for system admin and for all your needs
(i.e. not necessary to edit a text file on a console to configure the graphical system X on your machine, like i did with my laptop, lol :)

=== 3) you personal needs

linux has a very good graphical system (XFree86 or Xorg) that supports almost every graphic card... with a little work for esoteric hardware :)
"alsa" is good for managing audio.
full support (natively) for network protocols.
support for most of the hardware. i have to say that "strange" esoteric hardware give you problems...

linux has the possibility to make you run software written for windows. not *all* the programs, but many(most) of them.
two ways: emulate a "virtual" machine with "bochs" and install a windows system *under* your linux system. but is a little slower than the original windows.
or you can use "wine" (Wine Is Not an Emulator, recursively :) to run directly the code (someone tryed to run sasser too with wine, it worked :). as you can imagine wine doesn't work with all (i still can't play with starcraft), but if it work it is more stable (and even faster!) than the original windows. and the good news are that unreal works at first shoot :)

at the end... is a matter of your personal needs. its not the time to be a linux fanatic :)
i.e.: if you feel windows is still more suitable for you, keep using it. if you want to learn more, and make your system more stable and much more secure, change to linux. but you'll have to "study" a little (read HOW-TOs, read documentation, search with google, ask in NGs :)

hope this post is useful

feel free to write me if i can help, but... consider i'm relatively new to linux. best way to obtain help is contacting your local Linux User Group :)

cya :)
_________________
"Never underestimate the bandwith of my volvo-stationcar full of tapes hulring down the freeway!"

Hyper · Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:09 pm Post subject:

Thanks. I still have to try it. Simple besause sooner or later I just have to. I tried to find a download for Gentoo, but there are a hell of a lot of files and I don't know which is a good one. I think of an ISO, I prefer the Dutch version, of an installation CD. It has to be user friendly because i'm new to Linux at all.
_________________
Alter your reality...forever.
Hyper.nl Unreal Services
unreal://hypercoop.tk

pino · Joined: 25 Jul 2004 Posts: 11 Location: italy

hi hyper,
i looked around for some useful links for you!

possible choices are:

debian
http://www.debian.org/index.nl.html
the debian dutch site, full of info and...

http://www.debian.org/doc/index.nl.html
... documentation! they explain almost *all*
consider that debian has a very large comunity support (even in your mother language) that helps a lot with handling your "new" linux system

http://www.debian.org/distrib/cd.nl.html
and here you can download the ISO of installation CD. you can find ftp download or even bittorrent!
i suggest you to try the last avaible snapshot of the testing (not unstable!) debian distribution. its new installer is quite simple and clear!

you can download directly from these torrents the first 3cd of debian testing, they are enough for a complete installation of a debian base system *plus* graphic interface *plus* development tools:
http://cdimage.debian.org/pub/weekly/torrents/i386/sarge-i386-1.iso.torrent
http://cdimage.debian.org/pub/weekly/torrents/i386/sarge-i386-2.iso.torrent
http://cdimage.debian.org/pub/weekly/torrents/i386/sarge-i386-3.iso.torrent

gentoo

http://www.gentoo.org/
this is the distribution i use. not so simple, talking clearly, but has a very useful handbook that helps you in installation and a good forum support from other users

http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/index.xml
this is the handbook

http://torrents.gentoo.org/
this is the URL of their torrents depository, that actually is down and redirect you to http://tracker.netdomination.org/

from here you have to download at least 1 ISO:
the universal-installation CD

http://tracker.netdomination.org/torrents/install-x86-universal-2004.2.iso.torrent
this will let you install a full gentoo system on your computer, with the help of the "net", and compiling *all* optimized for your system

if you want to make a faster installation, without compiling everything, you can download the packages-iso optimized for i686

http://tracker.netdomination.org/torrents/packages-i686-2004.2.iso.torrent
this will let you install pre-compiled binaries optimized for a i686 architecture

http://forums.gentoo.org/
here are all the forums for support...

http://forums.gentoo.org/viewforum.php?f=36
even in dutch language :)

suse 9.1 personal edition

http://www.suse.de/
here to get info and documentation. sorry, seems no dutch language on their site :(

http://www.suse.de/en/private/download/ftp/personal_iso_int.html
here to download a singleCD ISO via ftp

here you can find more info and support, think also in your mother language:

http://www.tldp.org/
the linux documentation project, full of How-To and various docs...

http://www.tldp.org/links/nenglish.html#dutch
... in dutch language!

http://www.linuxquestions.org/
this is really a great site for support!!! but only in english as far as i know :(

http://www.nllgg.nl/
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Users_Group
http://www.nluug.nl/
http://www.nl.tuk.gonear.com/
i'm not so good with the ducth language, but a simple search with google returned me some URLs you can find useful about Linux Users Groups near you

hope all this links and documentation can help you!
in these days i tried the new debian installer. i found it very good and simple, even for new users. also, they have a dutch section on their site so... read a little around, try the debian distro and... let me know :)

pino
_________________
"Never underestimate the bandwith of my volvo-stationcar full of tapes hulring down the freeway!"

Hyper · Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:03 am Post subject:

I downloaded a SUSE Live CD today, just to try the possibilities of Linux. Unfortunately it did not detect my harddisk or it may be incompatible with the NTFS file system that is present on all my harddisks. I'll see what the other distributions can do too.
_________________
Alter your reality...forever.
Hyper.nl Unreal Services
unreal://hypercoop.tk

(D.S.)Sephiroth · Joined: 21 Aug 2004 Posts: 83 Location: Buckeye State

ive never tried linux so i dont know how good it is compared to windows. id like to try it but i never have the time. and like AOL my family is to dependant on it to switch to a better thing [:shakehead:] .So how good is linux? id like to know so when i move out of the AOL-house so that i dont get something bad.
_________________
If history is to change, let it change. If the world is to be destroyed, so be it. If it is my fate to die.. I must simply laugh.

3 · Joined: 25 Jan 2004 Posts: 1

For all the people that would like to try linux without installing it
try KNOPPIX it runs from CD

here's the link for the disto plus just about every linux disto too

http://www.linuxiso.org/

3

(D.S.)Sephiroth · Joined: 21 Aug 2004 Posts: 83 Location: Buckeye State

heh thanks, 3. its a good way to try it.
_________________
If history is to change, let it change. If the world is to be destroyed, so be it. If it is my fate to die.. I must simply laugh.

pino · Joined: 25 Jul 2004 Posts: 11 Location: italy

sorry, i read these posts only today
have been out of town for a couple of days :)

yeah, knoppix is really a good starting point!!!
(shame on me for not speaking of it before, lol)
it is (at least) a debian system, with a very good set of hardware 'self-recognize&&configure' tools.
you can also install it on your HD... there are really a lot of tutorials online about it :)
http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html

talking about the filesystem... as hyper said in his post.
this is the wrong note :(

NTFS is a micro$oft fs, which specifications are not (well) know. it means that the support for NTFS resizing (and even writing) is not perfect under linux :(

a good idea is to get rid of all the NTFS partitions... lol :)
ok, it was a joke :)

a good idea is to do the work by hand. not so complicated as you can think:
1- defragment your NTFS partition (hoping you have enough free space). you have to leave all the free space at the end of the disk. you need at least 2Gigabyte of free space, plus a swap space that usually is double of the RAM you have. i think more than 512M of swap is useless, so consider this as an upper limit
2- then resize it with a NTFS-resize tool(*** see above). you can easily find a lot of online tutorial about this
3- create two more partitions (type 83 linux native and type 82 swap partition) with fdisk or cfidsk(*** see above)
4- another partition would be useful to exchange data between the two perating systems. it should be fat32 (or vfat in linux jargoon). it's good a choiche for data share: both the o.s. can read/write on it without any problem. again you can use fdisk or cfdisk (*** see above). remember that is a limit to the number of primary partitions, that is four (i learned by myself!). so, if you need more than 4 partitions, consider the possibility to create two primary (window$ *must* be on one of these, sigh...) and one extended in which you can create more than four partition (linux can be on each of these kind of partition, without any problem at all, lol)
5- reboot from the suse cdrom (or whatever distribution you want to install!) and simply begin with the installation process!
at this point yast (the suse installer) or the "generic distribution install" will simply ask you if you want to use the 'already-made' partitions (nice trick man!). yast will also "mount" automagically all the others partition it can found on your local drives...
6- particular attention to the boot loader! if you plan to restart with the disk geometry and install window$ again, consider that it rewrite the master boot record without asking! so its better to do the win$ installation first, and the linux after.
linux install one of these two boot loaders: LILO or GRUB.
i sincerely prefer the second one, but is a querstion of tastes. they both can boot window$ as well as linux :)
you will be asked where you want to install the boot loader:
* on the MBR (master boot record), so that all you o.s. boot from it... i did this way on *my* system
* on the partition boot record. in this case you need on the MBR a boot loader able to "call" the boot record of each partition
* on a floppy disk! this can be useful if you want just to try linux, and dont want to overwrite your window$ MBR. you can boot linux everytime with your boot floppy, and continue to simply use window$ all the time.
you need a minimal interaction with each of these methods: yast will do all the work by itsellf, but some installation scripts can ask you about "what" is installed and "where". really, it's quite simple to do. you'll always have a boot loader configure example to looak at :)
ok, choose one of these three possibilities and... go ahead with the installation.

thats all, you made it :)
you can reboot and start your "new" linux box and enjoy it :)

(*** what to use to do the "dirty work" at points 2,3 and 4 )
the points 2,3 and 4 represents the 'not-destructive' way of installing linux, and they are (potentially) common to every distribution you can choose. they can also be used to recovery purpose too!
(consider the possibility of doing a backup using a linux box created 'on the fly', doing forensic analisys with knoppix, pen testing with knoppix-STD or Phlack or other distribution... lol!)
so... which are the instruments you can use to complete these steps?
easy and simple: another... linux distribution!!! lol
http://www.sysresccd.org/
system rescue CD is a very useful tool i use to do the dirty job. it is in fact a live linux distribution based on the gentoo system, that can do all the work. when you boot from system rescue you'll have a text-based interface and many utility. try to type:

to run a graphical (yes!) partition tools that let you create/delete/resize partiotions, and resize NTFS fs too!
(but PLEASE read the documentation before, and do a backup of everything! this program is a GUI for the great GNU software parted)

to manually partion with a text based interface (for geeks, lol)

to run a graphical text editor

that's all

for any further problem... drop me a line :)
hi hyper, hi seph :)
cya
_________________
"Never underestimate the bandwith of my volvo-stationcar full of tapes hulring down the freeway!"